<!DOCTYPE html><HTML lang="en"> <head><meta charset="utf-8"> <title>The Philosophical Parent: Asking the Hard Questions About Having and Raising Children (Kazez (Jean)) - Theo Todman's Book Collection (Book-Paper Abstracts)</title> <link href="../../../TheosStyle.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"><link rel="shortcut icon" href="../../../TT_ICO.png" /> </head> <a name="Top"></a> <BODY> <div id="header"> <HR><H1>Theo Todman's Book Collection (Book-Paper Abstracts)</H1></div> <hr><CENTER><TABLE class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950><tr><td colspan =3><A HREF = "../BookSummary_6559.htm">The Philosophical Parent: Asking the Hard Questions About Having and Raising Children</A></td></tr><tr><td colspan =3><A HREF = "../../../Authors/K/Author_Kazez (Jean).htm">Kazez (Jean)</a></td></tr><tr><td colspan =3>This Page provides (where held) the <b>Abstract</b> of the above <b>Book</b> and those of all the <b>Papers</b> contained in it.</td></tr><tr><td><A HREF="#ColourConventions">Text Colour-Conventions</a></td><td><A HREF = "../BookCitings_6559.htm">Books / Papers Citing this Book</A></td><td><A HREF = "../BooksToNotes_6559.htm">Notes Citing this Book</A></td></tr></tr></TABLE></CENTER><hr> <P ALIGN = "Justify"><FONT Size = 2 FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><B>BOOK ABSTRACT: </B><BR><BR><u>Inside Cover Blurb</u><FONT COLOR = "800080"><ol type="1"><li><em>Becoming parents</em> draws us into philosophical quandaries before our children have even been born. <ol type="i"><li>Why do most of us want to have children? </li><li>Should we make new people, despite life's travails and our crowded world? </li><li>Is adoptive parenthood just the same as biological parenthood? </ol></li><li>Once children arrive, the questions start to be a mix of the profound and the practical. <ol type="i"><li>Should we share our lifestyle with our children, no matter how unusual? </li><li>Should we vaccinate and may we circumcise? </li><li>Should we encourage gender differences? </ol></li><li>Tracing the arc of parenthood from the earliest days to the college years and beyond, Jean Kazez explores 18 questions for philosophical parents, applying the tools of philosophy and drawing on personal experience. <em>The Philosophical Parent</em> offers a novel account of the parent-child relationship and uses it to tackle a variety of parenting puzzles, but more than that, Kazez celebrates both having children and philosophical reflection. Her book provides a challenging but cheerful companion for thoughtful parents and parents-to-be. </li><li>Jean Kazez teaches philosophy at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas. She is the author of two previous Books  <em>The Weight of Things: Philosophy and the Good Life</em> and <a name="6"></a>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_06/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_6592.htm">Kazez (Jean) - Animalkind: What We Owe to Animals</A>" (both Wiley-Blackwell)  and writes a column for <em>The Philosophers' Magazine</em>. </li></ol></FONT><BR><u>Back Cover Plaudits</u><FONT COLOR = "800080"><ol type="1"><li>"With generosity of spirit and sharpness of mind, Kazez has given us the most thoughtful gift any parent or would-be parent could receive. Such a philosophical examination of parenthood is long overdue but well worth the wait."<BR>&rarr; <a name="3"></a><A HREF = "../../../Authors/B/Author_Baggini (Julian).htm">Julian Baggini</A>, author of <em>Freedom Regained</em> and <em>The Ego Trick</em> </li><li>"This is a spirited and engaging examination of key philosophical challenges related to having and raising children. Author Jean Kazez provides a deeply serious introduction to procreative and parenting ethics, yet also conveys the sheer delight of philosophizing about topics that are at the heart of human life. Accessibly and clearly written, the book illuminates the many difficult ethical questions that arise for parents, would-be parents, and their children, and encourages readers to develop the skills to resolve them."<BR>&rarr; <a name="4"></a><A HREF = "../../../Authors/O/Author_Overall (Christine).htm">Christine Overall</A>, Professor Emerita of Philosophy, Queen's University at Kingston; author of <em>Why Have Children?</em> </li><li>"Engagingly and accessibly written, parents especially but also non-parents pondering whether or not to have children and people with a general interest in philosophical questions will find new insights in every chapter of this terrific and important contribution to the philosophy of parenting."<BR>&rarr; <a name="5"></a><A HREF = "../../../Authors/B/Author_Brogaard (Berit).htm">Berit Brogaard</A>, Professor of Philosophy, University of Miami, Florida </li><li>"Jean Kazez is right. Having children leads to questions  a lot of them. Questions about ethics, the meaning of life, and what matters in family life are philosophical questions. Whether or not you agree with her views, this book will help you to think more about being a parent, and it will help you to be a more thoughtful parent. And this can make you a better parent, which is something that is definitely worth pursuing."<BR>&rarr; Michael W. Austin, Professor of Philosophy & Religion, Eastern Kentucky University </li></ol></FONT><BR><u>Amazon Book Description</u><FONT COLOR = "800080"><ol type="1"><li>Having and raising a child forces parents to confront questions that can consume even the most dedicated of philosophers. For those for whom it is a choice whether or not to have children, even the question of whether it is right to have a child is perplexing and difficult. And, if you do have a child, then what do you do? What are your obligations as a parent? Should you remain a neutral steward of your child's independent life, or intervene more strongly? How can you interact with your child to best ensure that that child leads a good life, while not going too far to protect her? On the more practical level, what is the ethical parent to do when it comes to issues like circumcision, vaccination, and teaching children about gender? </li><li>These are a few of the eighteen questions that Jean Kazez considers in <em>The Philosophical Parent</em>. Drawing on personal experience and philosophical insight, Kazez provides a useful and illuminating companion to parenthood by tracing the arc of a child's development, and addressing all the puzzles that arise along the way. Though arguing ardently for a novel view of the bond between child and parent, Kazez adeptly guides her readers to form their own perspectives as well-their own way of becoming philosophical parents. </li></ol></FONT><BR><u>Contents</u><FONT COLOR = "800080"><ol type="1">Introduction  ix <li>Children Come from Us: <em>What's so special about having kids?</em>  1</li><li>Life Is Good: <em>Are babies lucky to be born or just the opposite?</em>  15 </li><li>Quantity Control: <em>Must we care about population statistics?</em>  31 </li><li>Quality Control: <em>Should we mess with nature?</em>  47 </li><li>In the Beginning: <em>What's going on in there?</em>  67 </li><li>A Child Is Born: <em>Is labor pain simply awful?</em>  85 </li><li>Whose Child Is This? <em>Why do biological parents have prerogatives?</em>  99 </li><li>Nobody's Child: <em>Does biology really matter?</em>  117 </li><li>Parenthood s Aim: <em>What's a parent for?</em>  133 </li><li>First Decisions: <em>To cut or not to cut?</em>  151</li><li>Still Life with Child: <em>Who's going to care for the baby?</em>  171 </li><li>Boys and Girls: <em>Is it okay to prefer a girl or a boy? Should parents reinforce gender?</em>  187 </li><li>The One and the Many: <em>When must I contribute to group efforts?</em>  209 </li><li>Lies, Lies, Lies: <em>Should we ever lie to our children & or for them?</em>  231 </li><li>Passing on Religion: <em>Should we raise children in our own image?</em>  245 </li><li>Letting Go: <em>What should we do for our grown children?</em>  259 </li><li>Going Home: <em>What should our grown children do for us?</em>  269 </li><li>Parenthood and Meaning: <em>Does parenthood make us better off?</em>  277 <BR>Acknowledgments  293 <BR>Annotated Bibliography  295 <BR>Index  315 </li></ol></FONT><BR><u>Notes</u><ol type="1"><li>I bought a copy of this book for my eldest daughter Becky to read while she was expecting our first grandchild  Thomas. I think she read some of it but then moved on to more pressing books on the practicalities of baby-care. I read it from the perspective of a grand-parent-to-be. </li><li>I don t have time for a thorough review, but will just pick up a few points of most interest, both practically and from the perspective of my research. </li><li>Kazez writes from the perspective of a secular Jew, not that that is important except, possibly, in Chapters 10 & 15. </li><li>From my perspective, while there is much of interest in every chapter, the points of particular interest are:- <ol type="i"><li>There are some interesting thoughts on (the lack of) pre-existence. We do not rescue children from non-existence by conceiving them. Talk of a  possible person is <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_B6559_1">not the same kind of talk as</A></U><SUB>1</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_B6559_1"></A> of a  tall person. </li><li>She is unimpressed by <a name="7"></a>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_06/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_6601.htm">Benatar (David) - Better Never to Have Been: The Harm Of Coming Into Existence</A>", but I was induced to buy the book at last, not that I m likely ever to read it. </li><li>When does your child come into existence? I first came across Kazez in <a name="2"></a>"<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_22/Abstract_22887.htm">Kazez (Jean) - Life Doesn't Begin at Conception</A>" (though I can t remember where I came across that paper!). More on this later. </li><li>Do children persist as the same individual, and how so?</li><li>Kazez thinks that the reason we are justified in giving priority to our child  and molding them in our image  is because they were and remain to a degree  part of us. A lot of her proposals logically rest on this view, which I wish to dispute. <ol type="a"><li>The reason we can offer priority to our children is firstly (and maybe least importantly) that we have invested resources in them, but more importantly that  at least in the way our societies are structured  it is our duty to do so. No-one else is in a position to give them as much care and support. </li><li>I think the idea that we can use our children to pursue whatever goals we are interested in ourselves  so their success is our success  is pernicious and selfish, and likely to lead to their ultimate rebellion and disenchantment.</li><li>However, I agree that we can t leave our children to find their own way  if we don t fill their heads with stuff, someone else  or the  general culture  will do so, and do a worse job, maybe. But I do think we should ask ourselves whether we have good reason to believe whatever we do, and therefore whether it s fair to inflict these beliefs on our children. </li><li>Despite Kazez s attempts to deny this obvious point, this view doesn t sit well for adopted children (or even for fathers, for that matter). </ol></li><li>Should we always tell our children the truth? There s an account of her telling her children  after their pet rabbit died  that (in response to their questions) that yes  they would die in due course (but not for a long time). They squawked for weeks, so she thought this might have been rash. </ol> </li></ol><BR><HR><BR><U><B>In-Page Footnotes</U> (<a name="8"></a>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_06/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_6559.htm">Kazez (Jean) - The Philosophical Parent: Asking the Hard Questions About Having and Raising Children</A>")</B><a name="On-Page_Link_B6559_1"></A><BR><BR><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_B6559_1"><B>Footnote 1</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>This reminds me of the <a name="1"></a><A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_951.htm">Ontological Argument</a>. </li></ul> <FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><HR><B>BOOK COMMENT: </B><BR><BR>OUP USA (7 Sept. 2017)</P> <P ALIGN = "Justify"><FONT Size = 2 FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><HR><BR>"<B><A HREF = "../../../PaperSummaries/PaperSummary_22/PaperSummary_22906.htm">Kazez (Jean) - The Philosophical Parent: Asking the Hard Questions About Having and Raising Children</A></B>"<BR><BR><B>Source</B>: Kazez (Jean) - The Philosophical Parent: Asking the Hard Questions About Having and Raising Children<BR><FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><BR><BR>I may eventually break this book out into separate Papers  at least for the chapters I m especially interested in. For now I just quote the Introduction, and add a few notes as necessary. <BR><BR><u>Introduction</u> (Full Text)<FONT COLOR = "800080"><ol type="1"><li>Having children turns every parent and parent-to-be into a philosopher. The philosophical questions are right there in the many perplexing situations we confront in the process of bringing new people into the world and then raising them. Fortunately, we're also in a position to spend some time thinking about these questions. Becoming and being a parent is full of waiting, which means we have time to muse, grapple, wonder, and discuss. </li><li>There's waiting to get pregnant  why is it so important to become a parent? Waiting for morning sickness to end  why does nausea make all of life seem so dismal? Waiting for lab results  are there any problems that would make termination of a pregnancy a reasonable choice? And waiting for a <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_71.htm">fetus</A><SUP>1</SUP> to become a baby  at what point has your child come into existence? </li><li>Later, there's waiting for the crying to stop so you can leave for work  is it okay that you're going to work? Waiting at the park while your child plays  why is your child so beautiful and brilliant in your eyes, and should you try to be more objective? Waiting in doctors' offices  must you vaccinate, even if there's a tiny risk of a bad reaction? Waiting for one phase to end and another to begin  does your child remain the same child, through all the changes? And waiting for college admissions decisions  why do you care so much? And many other reasons to wait and to wonder. </li><li>One of my favorite occasions for thought, over the nineteen years since my twins+XX+ were born, has been The Performance, whether a talent show, a play, or a recital. Your kid is somewhere in the line-up, and there are twenty other acts to watch and applaud. Every child is charmingly gawky and innocent, and there are patches of true talent here and there. But these things can drag, so there's time to think. And also something interesting to think about. Can I go home after my own child performs? Or do I owe it to the parents who watched my child to stay and watch theirs? What social obligations do I incur by being a parent in a community? </li><li>There's time to wonder and reflect, but not long stretches of time. The baby will wake up, the exercise class will end. You only have ten minutes to read at bedtime, before your eyes are going to close. So the chapters of this book are fairly short. Big problems are broken up into chewable morsels. Long stages of life for parents are broken up into series of shorter stages. </li><li>The questions are arranged in chronological order, starting with three about why we want children and whether we're being good, bad, or neither by having them. Next is a question about controlling the sort of child we have  whether to be selective, or to accept whatever child comes our way. And then there are questions about pregnancy, the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_71.htm">fetus</A><SUP>2</SUP>, and birth. At long last, a child has been born, and there are some hard questions to ask about the basis for saying the child belongs to one prospective parent or another. </li><li>Halfway through the book, we turn from questions about becoming parents to questions about being parents. Chapter 9 considers just what, precisely, parents do for their children  what the parenting job consists of. After that I tackle numerous questions about how we ought to treat our children: whether to circumcise a boy; when we may lie to children; how much to care about a child's gender; and to what extent we should pass on our own values and beliefs. There are also questions about what it means to be a socially responsible parent. Must we get involved with the PTA at our child's school? Do we have to go along with collective projects like vaccination? </li><li>Finally, what do we get out of being parents? Happiness? Meaning? Or in fact a reduction in well-being, especially if we're not only parents but primary caregivers? And what should children give back to us, in return for being cared for over many years? We'll begin at the beginning. We affiliate with other people in all sorts of ways  friend to friend, spouse to spouse, brother to sister, teacher to student. What's so special about parent to child? And in the first place, what is it for another person to be my child. </li></ol></FONT><BR><u>Notes on Chapter 5: In the Beginning: What's going on in there?</u> <ol type="1"><li><b>Sections</b>: <ul type="disc"><FONT COLOR = "800080"><li>Introduction</li><li>Was Larry Once an <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_12/Notes_1243.htm">Embryo</A><SUP>3</SUP>?</li><li>Very Early, Very Late</li><li>Olson Vs. Baker</li><li>The Very Beginning</li><li>Pregnancy Loss </FONT></li></ul></li><li><b><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_4">Bibliography</A></U><SUB>4</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_4"></A></b> <ol type="i"><li>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_06/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_6711.htm">Baird (Robert M.) & Rosenbaum (Stuart E.), Eds. - The Ethics of Abortion: Pro-Life Vs. Pro-Choice</A>", <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_5">Baird & Rosenbaum</A></U><SUB>5</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_5"></A></li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_66.htm">Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Persons and Bodies: A Constitution View</A>", Baker</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_06/Abstract_6979.htm">Baker (Lynne Rudder) - When Does a Person Begin?</A>", Baker</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_06/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_6709.htm">Eliot (Lise) - What's Going On in There?: How the Brain And Mind Develop in the First Five Years of Life</A>", Eliot</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_01/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_1365.htm">Ford (Norman) - When Did I Begin: Conception of the Human Individual in History, Philosophy and Science</A>", Ford</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_23/Abstract_23349.htm">Koch (Cristof) - When Does Consciousness Arise in Human Babies?</A>", Koch</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_12/Abstract_12143.htm">Marquis (Don) - Why Abortion is Immoral</A>", Marquis</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_130.htm">Olson (Eric) - The Human Animal - Personal Identity Without Psychology</A>", Olson</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_02/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_2710.htm">Olson (Eric) - What are We?</A>", Olson</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_06/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_6710.htm">Radest (Howard B.) - Biomedical Ethics: Humanist Perspectives</A>", <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_6">Radest</A></U><SUB>6</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_6"></A></li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_06/Abstract_6653.htm">Smith (Barry) & Brogaard (Berit) - Sixteen Days</A>", Smith & Brogaard</li><li>"<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_05/Abstract_5677.htm">Thomson (Judith Jarvis) - A Defense of Abortion</A>", Thomson</li><li><A HREF = "http://www.visembryo.com/" TARGET = "_top">The Visible Embryo</A><BR></ol></li><li>Kazez claims to seek to avoid the  look ahead analysis of the ontological status of the conceptus through <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_71.htm">fetus</A><SUP>7</SUP>  and its relation to the future child  so that it doesn t get entangled with the abortion debate. Pro-lifers and pro-choicers tend to  look ahead and so distort the argument to fit lest they paint themselves into the opposite corner. Kazez hopes not to do this, and in any case thinks the ethics of abortion to be orthogonal to the ontological status of the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_71.htm">fetus</A><SUP>8</SUP>. </li><li>When Kazez reflects on her pregnancy with her twins+XX+, she tends to think of them as existing a long time before their birth, and as having been continuous with the tiny balls of cells  they once were . </li><li>But, she asks, could the very same entity go from being coffee-ground sized and primitive to being a 5-year-old? Yes, she says; nature is full of such dramatic changes: birds fledge, caterpillars <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_37.htm">metamorphose</A><SUP>9</SUP> into <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_10">butterflies</A></U><SUB>10</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_10"></A>. Immature creatures become adults, we want to say. </li><li>Isn t the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_12/Notes_1243.htm">embryo</A><SUP>11</SUP> just the extreme case of immaturity? And isn t human birth at an arbitrary point in maturation, much earlier than ideal, necessitated by the exigencies of the birth process, given large head & narrow hips? </li><li>Kazez contrasts a  very early view supposedly held by <A HREF = "../../../Authors/O/Author_Olson (Eric).htm">Eric Olson</A> with the  very late view supposedly held by <A HREF = "../../../Authors/B/Author_Baker (Lynne Rudder).htm">Lynne Rudder Baker</A>. I ve added these  supposedly s because the two philosophers differ radically on <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_7/Notes_734.htm">what we are</A><SUP>12</SUP>. Olson thinks we are (identical to) <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_12/Notes_1265.htm">human animals</A><SUP>13</SUP>. Baker thinks we are (identical to or maybe  most fundamentally ) human persons. Both may agree when <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_12/Notes_1265.htm">human animals</A><SUP>14</SUP> begin, <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_15">for all I know</A></U><SUB>15</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_15"></A>. </li><li>Kazez notes that Olson  in "<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_130.htm">Olson (Eric) - The Human Animal - Personal Identity Without Psychology</A>"  holds the  very early view not on ethical or religious grounds but because he thinks serious metaphysical perplexities arise otherwise. </li><li>As far as the  very late view is concerned, Kazez notes that some introduce  consciousness as essential for our existence, but just <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_16">when does it arise</A></U><SUB>16</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_16"></A>? Kazez notes that a  fairly <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_17">cautious</A></U><SUB>17</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_17"></A> assessment would be that consciousness arises between 24 and 34 weeks, by which time normal brain waves (as measured by an EEG) arise  though even then the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_71.htm">fetus</A><SUP>18</SUP> spends most of its time asleep. Anyone thinking that consciousness is essential to our existence thinks of us as essentially a conscious <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_98.htm">self</A><SUP>19</SUP>, not just an organism. </li><li>Baker s view  in "<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_66.htm">Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Persons and Bodies: A Constitution View</A>"  is that personhood is essential to us, and we don t exist before or after we are <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_9.htm">persons</A><SUP>20</SUP>  but what is personhood? Kazez s brief exposition of Baker s view is that a person must have at least a rudimentary <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_22.htm">First Person Perspective</A><SUP>21</SUP> (consciousness, the ability to imitate and to have intentional states) and be on the way to having a full-blown FPP (reflectiveness, moral responsibility, reason and the like  that is <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_22">in order to rule out</A></U><SUB>22</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_22"></A> non-human animals)+XX+. Baker thinks human babies qualify as having a rudimentary FPP at birth, and since they are all on the way to a full-blown FPP, babies qualify as persons. </li><li>Olson objects to Baker s  very late view by observing that it s very odd that  while there s a precursor to the person in the womb, something new pops into existence just when a rudimentary FPP arises. </li><li>This might be the case if substance <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_1/Notes_124.htm">dualism</A><SUP>23</SUP> were true and a <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_1/Notes_100.htm">soul</A><SUP>24</SUP> was created and attached to the body around the time of birth. Unfortunately, Kazez points out, the  <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_908.htm">soul view</A><SUP>25</SUP> is problematic for the usual reasons: <ol type="a"><li>How do souls attach to bodies? </li><li>How do souls interact with physical things?</li><li>Where are souls prior to attachment? </li><li>What are souls made of?<BR></ol>Kazez sees no good answers to these questions, and claims that there are <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_26">almost no</A></U><SUB>26</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_26"></A> fans of souls amongst contemporary philosophers. Of course, as Kazez notes, Baker doesn t support this view in any case. </li><li>Instead Baker thinks that as soon as a rudimentary FPS arises, the person comes into existence, being <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_62.htm">constituted</A><SUP>27</SUP> by the organism. Kazez explains Baker s position by her analogy between the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1171.htm">statue and the clay</A><SUP>28</SUP>. </li><li>Kazez expounds Olson s position as the  simpler view that the individual starts to exist very early on and later acquires the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_93.htm">property</A><SUP>29</SUP> of being a person, but with no ontological change. However,  simpler isn t necessarily  correct , claims Baker, as it d imply we are  merely organisms, who just happen to be persons at stages of our lives, like we might be adults or lawyers. For Baker, personhood is an ontologically significant property  persons are always persons. </li><li>Kazez <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_30">isn t troubled by</A></U><SUB>30</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_30"></A> the thought that she was once a non-person, just like she was once a non-mother. While we are animals, we are <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_31">very special animals</A></U><SUB>31</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_31"></A>. Anyway, we re referred to Baker s and Olson s oeuvres for a more nuanced discussion. </li><li>Kazez now turns to the question of just when the individual begins. <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_32">Olson</A></U><SUB>32</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_32"></A> and Baker agree that conception is too early as the point the fetal organism begins to exist. </li><li>This chapter now covers some of the same ground as "<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_22/Abstract_22887.htm">Kazez (Jean) - Life Doesn't Begin at Conception</A>", though more briefly. She notes that Olson and  quite a few other philosophers are convinced by "<A HREF = "../../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_01/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_1365.htm">Ford (Norman) - When Did I Begin: Conception of the Human Individual in History, Philosophy and Science</A>", that we were never a <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1174.htm">zygote</A><SUP>33</SUP>, though this view  hasn t entered the mainstream . Kazez rehearses the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1173.htm">twinning</A><SUP>34</SUP> argument: in the case of actual <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1173.htm">twinning</A><SUP>35</SUP> the logic of identity means that, while both <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1173.htm">twins</A><SUP>36</SUP> have the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1174.htm">zygote</A><SUP>37</SUP> as a precursor, neither can be identical to it. For some <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_38">reason</A></U><SUB>38</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_38"></A>, Kazez just brushes this argument aside, rather than invoking the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_1/Notes_121.htm">modal</A><SUP>39</SUP> <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1173.htm">twinning</A><SUP>40</SUP> argument. She then rehearses the argument of the paper just <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_41">referenced</A></U><SUB>41</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_41"></A>, with the same conclusion: we either began around day 4, and so once had (future) fetal support structures as proper parts, or around day 14 when cells had differentiated sufficiently to be purely fetal. </li><li>What of miscarriages? Very early ones (prior to 4 or 14 days) merely dash hopes  a child-to-be isn t lost, as it didn t then exist. Kazez hasn t the space to address the ontological implications of later miscarriages (or <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_P22906_42">abortions</A></U><SUB>42</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_P22906_42"></A>), other than to note that she posits that the organism  kicking at 18 weeks is the child-to-be, rather than merely a fetal organism, but that it doesn t have the attributes of the child  ie. it is not a self or a person. </li></ol></P><BR><HR><BR><U><B>In-Page Footnotes</U> ("<A HREF = "../../../Abstracts/Abstract_22/Abstract_22906.htm">Kazez (Jean) - The Philosophical Parent: Asking the Hard Questions About Having and Raising Children</A>")</B><a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_4"></A><BR><BR><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_4"><B>Footnote 4</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>I couldn t find all the references, and couldn t be bothered to list those I ve not been able to obtain. See the book. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_5"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_5"><B>Footnote 5</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>Contains the papers by Marquis and Thomson mentioned below. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_6"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_6"><B>Footnote 6</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>Contains  The Moral Status of the Human <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_12/Notes_1243.htm">Embryo </a> by Brogarrd (Berit), which discusses the <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1173.htm">twinning</a> argument. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_10"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_10"><B>Footnote 10</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>This seems to beg the question, and may be a more awkward case than that in hand. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_15"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_15"><B>Footnote 15</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>I ought to know, as these philosophers views on the topic of personal identity are the focus of my research. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_16"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_16"><B>Footnote 16</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li><A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_61.htm">Consciousness</a> is a slippery topic, as there are various forms  and a great divide (it is said) between phenomenal consciousness and consciousness of self. </li><li>Kazez notes that research indicates that a sense of smell  probably arises at 20 weeks. </li></ul><a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_17"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_17"><B>Footnote 17</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>Cautious in which direction? Or is it both? So, definitely not before 24 weeks, definitely not later than 34 weeks?</li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_22"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_22"><B>Footnote 22</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>My take on the matter  Kazez just says that it does rule them out. </li><li>I think Baker  looks ahead and retrofits her metaphysics to her religious beliefs. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_26"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_26"><B>Footnote 26</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>While this is true, it s not as true as one might expect. <A HREF = "../../../Authors/S/Author_Swinburne (Richard).htm">Richard Swinburne</A> & <A HREF = "../../../Authors/Z/Author_Zimmerman (Dean).htm">Dean Zimmerman</A> are exceptions. </li><li>For some others, see Mark C. Baker & <A HREF = "../../../Authors/G/Author_Goetz (Stewart).htm">Stewart Goetz</A>, <em>The Soul Hypothesis: Investigations into the Existence of the Soul</em>, 2010 (<A HREF = "https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1441152245?ref%5F=ox%5Fsc%5Fsfl%5Ftitle%5F1&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pldnSite=1" TARGET = "_top">Link</A>)</li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_30"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_30"><B>Footnote 30</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>Kazez doesn t really refute Baker s view, which is disappointing. </li><li>I suspect Baker  while raising interesting questions about FPPs  of just cobbling together a view that agrees with her prior beliefs. </li><li>By this, I don t so much object to her <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_25.htm">constitution view</a> as such. It s her  rudimentary FPP account that I find awkward. It s a fudge to stop her position being seen as absurd (that we pop into existence when we develop a full-blown FPP). The FPP is either an essential property or it isn t. </li><li>Not that Baker is alone here. <A HREF = "../../../Authors/W/Author_Wiggins (David).htm">David Wiggins</A> doesn t  it seems to me  properly stick to his guns when he adds the rider that persons are members of  species whose members typically have certain person-defining attributes. </li><li>Personhood is either a property or an ontological category; we shouldn t fudge things lest there be awkward moral dilemmas. </li><li>We can still give the rights of persons to non-persons of certain categories if we wish. But it s important that we understand what we are+XX+ doing, as if we have to choose between saving a person or a non-person, we should choose the former. </li></ul><a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_31"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_31"><B>Footnote 31</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>This is my view, and maybe that of most <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_50.htm">animalists</a>. </li><li>Kazez doesn t mention the possibility that persons are <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_0/Notes_29.htm">phase sortals</a> of <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_12/Notes_1265.htm">human animals</a>, but she might well believe it. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_32"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_32"><B>Footnote 32</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>Kazez doesn t say just how early Olson thinks we might begin to exist.</li><li>Given that she s willing to posit that we might have started at 4 days, with future fetal support structures as proper parts, there can t be much difference between her views and Olson s (alleged)  very early view. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_38"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_38"><B>Footnote 38</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>Probably because the readership is supposed to include bovine mothers-to-be! </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_41"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_41"><B>Footnote 41</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>She doesn t mention it herself. Indeed, it must have been written later, and is an expansion of this passage, though much of the wording is identical, with helpful diagrams. </li></ul> <a name="On-Page_Link_P22906_42"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_P22906_42"><B>Footnote 42</B></A></U>: <ul type="disc"><li>I might note that miscarriages tend to occur because there is something wrong with the fetal development  though there are exceptions where there is injury to the mother, which should be classified as abortions. </li><li>Non-abortions probably fall under the category of  dashed hopes . Any child-to-be has probably already left the scene. </li></ul> <a name="ColourConventions"></a><hr><br><B><U>Text Colour Conventions</U> (see <A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_10/Notes_1025.htm">disclaimer</a>)</B><OL TYPE="1"><LI><FONT COLOR = "0000FF">Blue</FONT>: Text by me; &copy; Theo Todman, 2018</li><LI><FONT COLOR = "800080">Mauve</FONT>: Text by correspondent(s) or other author(s); &copy; the author(s)</li></OL> </center> <BR><HR><BR><center> <TABLE class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950> <TR><TD WIDTH="30%">&copy; Theo Todman, June 2007 - August 2018.</TD> <TD WIDTH="40%">Please address any comments on this page to <A HREF="mailto:theo@theotodman.com">theo@theotodman.com</A>.</TD> <TD WIDTH="30%">File output: <time datetime="2018-08-02T05:22" pubdate>02/08/2018 05:22:20</time> <br><A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_10/Notes_1010.htm">Website Maintenance Dashboard</A> </TD></TR><TD WIDTH="30%"><A HREF="#Top">Return to Top of this Page</A></TD> <TD WIDTH="40%"><A HREF="../../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1140.htm">Return to Theo Todman's Philosophy Page</A></TD> <TD WIDTH="30%"><A HREF="../../../index.htm">Return to Theo Todman's Home Page</A></TD> </TR></TABLE></CENTER><HR> </BODY> </HTML>