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Personal Identity

Constitution View - Objections

(Text as at 06/07/2023 00:43:12)

Plug Note¹

• Thesis Text:
  1. The two obvious issues are:-
     1. The “too many minds” objection (otherwise known as the “thinking animal argument²”), and
     2. The “fetus problem³”
        
  2. Thinking Animals⁴
     • In saying that an Individual⁵ is a human animal⁶ and that also that that Individual is a person⁷ that is ontologically distinct from, and merely constituted by⁸, the human animal, Eric Olson argues that we have too many thinkers and therefore the constitution view⁹ is false.
     • I don’t like this argument, in that the form would prove too much. I see analogies with various mereological¹⁰ arguments:-
       → Peter Unger’s argument that “there are no ordinary things”,
       → The Sorites¹¹ arguments against the existence of material objects with parts, and maybe with
       → Tib/Tibbles¹², and
       → Dion/Theon¹³
     • All these arguments seem to have the same form – there are alleged to be too many co-located items, leading to the denial of some seemingly obvious premise.
     • Yet maybe I accept a version of this in disliking immaterial souls¹⁴ (again, too many thinkers – if the brain¹⁵ thinks, why do we need a soul that thinks as well). However, the degree of ontological¹⁶ distinctness between “the self¹⁷ and its brain¹⁸” is greater than that between the person¹⁹ and the human being²⁰ that (maybe temporarily) constitutes²¹ it. I will reconsider this collection of arguments in due course.
  3. Fetus Problem²²
     • This is the question whether I²³ was ever a Fetus. According to the Constitution View²⁴, I was not, as the Fetus had no First Person Perspective²⁵ (FPP), not even a rudimentary one, and since the FPP is constitutive / individuative of me.
     • But, if I was not the Fetus, where did I²⁶ come from?
     • I’m not hugely impressed by this argument either. It’s also a problem for Animalism (it is said) – is the early fetus an animal²⁷? Was the fetus a proper part of the mother? See "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?".
  4. So, should I accept the Constitution View²⁸? I think not. I am an animal²⁹, and objections to Animalism³⁰ can be overcome. The whole idea of Constitution³¹ as conceived of by the CV is very odd, and the CV was invented to provide the hope of resurrection³². I need to justify these assertions, of course!

References

• Relevant Works cited above:
  1. "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?", 2019, Annotations, Read
• Works on this topic that I’ve actually read³³, include the following:-
  • General:
    1. "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Brief Reply to Rosenkrantz's Comments on my 'The Ontological Status of Persons'", 2002, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
    2. "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism", 2004, Annotations
    3. "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Reply to Zimmerman’s 'Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism'", 2004, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
    4. "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons", 2000, Write-Up Note³⁴, Internal PDF Link
    5. "Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. - E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View'", 2001, Book
    6. "Garrett (Brian) - The Story of I: Some Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies'", 2001, Write-Up Note³⁵, Annotations
    7. "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?", 2019, Annotations
    8. "Noonan (Harold) - Arguments Against Animalism: Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies'", 2001, Write-Up Note³⁶, Annotations
    9. "Olson (Eric) - Thinking Animals and the Constitution View", 2001, Write-Up Note³⁷, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
    10. "Olson (Eric) - Thinking Animals and the Reference of 'I'", 2002, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
    11. "Olson (Eric) - What Are We? Constitution", 2007, Write-Up Note³⁸, Internal PDF Link
    12. "Rosenkrantz (Gary) - Reflections on the Ontological Status of Persons", 2002, Internal PDF Link
    13. "Sider (Ted) - Review of Lynne Rudder Baker, Persons and Bodies", 2002, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
    14. "Zimmerman (Dean) - Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism", 2004, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
    15. "Zimmerman (Dean) - Reply to Baker's 'Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism'", 2004, Annotations
• A further reading list might start with:-
  • General:
    1. "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Replies to Zimmerman, Rea & Pereboom", 2002, External Link
    2. "Burke (Michael) - Persons and Bodies: How to Avoid the New Dualism", 1997, Internal PDF Link, Read = 11%
    3. "De Waal (Frans) - The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist", 2001, Book, Read = 7%, Footnote₃₉
    4. "Noller (Jorg) - Beyond Animalism and Constitutionalism: The Person as A Form of Life", Undated, Internal PDF Link, Read = 17%
    5. "Olson (Eric) - Review of Lynne Baker's 'Persons And Bodies'", 2001, Internal PDF Link, Read = 67%
    6. "Pereboom (Derek) - On Baker's Persons and Bodies", 2002
    7. "Rea (Michael) - Lynne Baker on Material Constitution", 2002
    8. "Zimmerman (Dean) - Persons and Bodies: Constitution Without Mereology?", 2002

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• For a list of Works that have been considered, but have missed the cut for inclusion in this Section of my Thesis, see the following:-
  1. Read: No items to list.
  2. Further Reading: No items to list.
• This is mostly a place-holder⁴⁰.

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In-Page Footnotes:

Footnote 39:

• Argues against human uniqueness.
• No doubt there are a number of other books of this ilk.

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Table of the Previous 8 Versions of this Note:

Date	Length	Title
28/09/2022 10:24:58	4462	Constitution View - Objections
11/05/2022 21:43:12	4081	Constitution View - Objections
09/02/2021 21:59:02	3677	Constitution View - Objections
15/09/2020 21:33:07	3014	Constitution View - Objections
06/02/2018 23:35:31	4328	Constitution View - Objections
18/12/2010 19:58:05	1329	Constitution View - Objections
26/11/2007 23:25:26	1233	Constitution View - Objections
12/08/2007 10:17:46	520	Constitution View - Objections

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Note last updated	Reading List for this Topic	Parent Topic
06/07/2023 00:43:12	None available	Constitution

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Summary of Notes Referenced by This Note

Animalism - Objections	Animals	Awaiting Attention (Personal Identity)	Baker - The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons	Brain
Constitution	Constitution View	Dion and Theon	Fetuses	First-Person Perspective
Garrett - Persons and Bodies - Response	Human Animals	Human Beings	I	Individual
Mereology	Noonan - Persons and Bodies - Response	Olson - Persons and Bodies - Response	Olson - What Are We? Constitution	Ontology
Person	Plug Note Apologia	Resurrection	Self	Sorites
Souls	Thinking Animal Argument	Tibbles the Cat	Works Read - Explanation

To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.

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Summary of Notes Citing This Note

Animalism, 2, 3	Baker	Baker - The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons	Constitution, 2	Fetuses
Mereology	PID Note, Book & Paper Usage, 2, 3	Research - Proposal	Thesis - Chapter 06 (Animalism and Arguments for It), 2	Thesis - Chapter 07 (The Constitution View and Arguments for It)
Thesis - Chapter 08 (Arguments against Animalism)	Thesis - Chapter 09 (Arguments against the Constitution View), 2, 3, 4, 5	Thesis - Current Stance	Thesis - Personal Identity, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6	Thinking Animal Argument
Website Generator Documentation - Functors, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.

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Authors, Books & Papers Citing this Note

Author	Title	Medium	Extra Links	Read?
Baker (Lynne Rudder)	The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons	Paper		Yes
DeGrazia (David)	Human Persons: Numerical Identity and Essence	Paper
Hershenov (David)	Review of Nancey Murphy's 'Bodies and Souls, or Spirited Bodies?'	Paper		Yes
Olson (Eric)	The Zombies Among Us	Paper
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Animalism	Paper	2, 3	Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Baker	Paper		Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Chapter 06 (Animalism and Arguments for It)	Paper	2	Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Chapter 07 (The Constitution View and Arguments for It)	Paper		Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Chapter 08 (Arguments against Animalism)	Paper		Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Chapter 09 (Arguments against the Constitution View)	Paper	2, 3, 4, 5	Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Constitution	Paper	2	Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Current Position	Paper		Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Fetuses	Paper		Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Mereology	Paper		Yes
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Personal Identity	Paper	2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Todman (Theo)	Thesis - Thinking Animal Argument	Paper		Yes

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References & Reading List

Author	Title	Medium	Source	Read?
Baker (Lynne Rudder)	Brief Reply to Rosenkrantz's Comments on my 'The Ontological Status of Persons'	Paper - Cited	Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 65, September 2002, pp. 394-395	Yes
Baker (Lynne Rudder)	Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism	Paper - Cited	Peterson (Michael) & Van Arragon (Raymond) - Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion, 2004	Yes
Baker (Lynne Rudder)	Replies to Zimmerman, Rea & Pereboom	Paper - Cited	Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 64.3 (May 2002), pp. 623-635	No
Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc.	E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View'	Book - Cited	Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. - E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View'	Yes
De Waal (Frans)	The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist	Book - Cited	De Waal (Frans) - The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist	7%
Kingma (Elselijn)	Were You Part of Your Mother?	Paper - Cited	Mind, Volume 128, Issue 511, July 2019, Pages 609–646	Yes
Noller (Jorg)	Beyond Animalism and Constitutionalism: The Person as A Form of Life	Paper - Cited	Retrieved from Academia.edu	17%
Peterson (Michael) & VanArragon (Raymond)	Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion	Book - Cited (via Paper Cited)	Bibliographical details to be supplied	13%

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Text Colour Conventions

1. Blue: Text by me; © Theo Todman, 2025

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