Theo Todman's Web Page - Notes Pages
Personal Identity
Constitution View - Objections
(Text as at 06/07/2023 00:43:12)
Plug Note1
- Thesis Text:
- The two obvious issues are:-
- The “too many minds” objection (otherwise known as the “thinking animal argument2”), and
- The “fetus problem3”
- Thinking Animals4
- In saying that an Individual5 is a human animal6 and that also that that Individual is a person7 that is ontologically distinct from, and merely constituted by8, the human animal, Eric Olson argues that we have too many thinkers and therefore the constitution view9 is false.
- I don’t like this argument, in that the form would prove too much. I see analogies with various mereological10 arguments:-
→ Peter Unger’s argument that “there are no ordinary things”,
→ The Sorites11 arguments against the existence of material objects with parts, and maybe with
→ Tib/Tibbles12, and
→ Dion/Theon13
- All these arguments seem to have the same form – there are alleged to be too many co-located items, leading to the denial of some seemingly obvious premise.
- Yet maybe I accept a version of this in disliking immaterial souls14 (again, too many thinkers – if the brain15 thinks, why do we need a soul that thinks as well). However, the degree of ontological16 distinctness between “the self17 and its brain18” is greater than that between the person19 and the human being20 that (maybe temporarily) constitutes21 it. I will reconsider this collection of arguments in due course.
Fetus Problem22
This is the question whether I23 was ever a Fetus. According to the Constitution View24, I was not, as the Fetus had no First Person Perspective25 (FPP), not even a rudimentary one, and since the FPP is constitutive / individuative of me.
But, if I was not the Fetus, where did I26 come from?
I’m not hugely impressed by this argument either. It’s also a problem for Animalism (it is said) – is the early fetus an animal27? Was the fetus a proper part of the mother? See "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?".
So, should I accept the Constitution View28? I think not. I am an animal29, and objections to Animalism30 can be overcome. The whole idea of Constitution31 as conceived of by the CV is very odd, and the CV was invented to provide the hope of resurrection32. I need to justify these assertions, of course!
References
- Relevant Works cited above:
- "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?", 2019, Annotations, Read
- Works on this topic that I’ve actually read33, include the following:-
- General:
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Brief Reply to Rosenkrantz's Comments on my 'The Ontological Status of Persons'", 2002, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism", 2004, Annotations
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Reply to Zimmerman’s 'Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism'", 2004, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons", 2000, Write-Up Note34, Internal PDF Link
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. - E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View'", 2001, Book
- "Garrett (Brian) - The Story of I: Some Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies'", 2001, Write-Up Note35, Annotations
- "Kingma (Elselijn) - Were You Part of Your Mother?", 2019, Annotations
- "Noonan (Harold) - Arguments Against Animalism: Comments on L.R.Baker 'Persons & Bodies'", 2001, Write-Up Note36, Annotations
- "Olson (Eric) - Thinking Animals and the Constitution View", 2001, Write-Up Note37, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
- "Olson (Eric) - Thinking Animals and the Reference of 'I'", 2002, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
- "Rosenkrantz (Gary) - Reflections on the Ontological Status of Persons", 2002, Internal PDF Link
- "Sider (Ted) - Review of Lynne Rudder Baker, Persons and Bodies", 2002, Annotations, External Link, Internal PDF Link
- "Zimmerman (Dean) - Christians Should Affirm Mind-Body Dualism", 2004, Annotations, Internal PDF Link
- "Zimmerman (Dean) - Reply to Baker's 'Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism'", 2004, Annotations
- A further reading list might start with:-
- General:
- "Baker (Lynne Rudder) - Replies to Zimmerman, Rea & Pereboom", 2002, External Link
- "Burke (Michael) - Persons and Bodies: How to Avoid the New Dualism", 1997, Internal PDF Link
- "De Waal (Frans) - The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist", 2001, Book, Read = 7%, Footnote38
- "Noller (Jorg) - Beyond Animalism and Constitutionalism: The Person as A Form of Life", Undated, Internal PDF Link, Read = 17%
- "Olson (Eric) - Review of Lynne Baker's 'Persons And Bodies'", 2001, Internal PDF Link, Read = 67%
- "Olson (Eric) - What Are We? Constitution", 2007, Internal PDF Link, Read = 33%
- "Pereboom (Derek) - On Baker's Persons and Bodies", 2002
- "Rea (Michael) - Lynne Baker on Material Constitution", 2002
- "Zimmerman (Dean) - Persons and Bodies: Constitution Without Mereology?", 2002
- For a list of Works that have been considered, but have missed the cut for inclusion in this Section of my Thesis, see the following:-
- Read: No items to list.
- Further Reading: No items to list.
- This is mostly a place-holder39.
In-Page Footnotes:
Footnote 38:
- Argues against human uniqueness.
- No doubt there are a number of other books of this ilk.
Table of the Previous 8 Versions of this Note:
Note last updated |
Reading List for this Topic |
Parent Topic |
06/07/2023 00:43:12 |
None available |
Constitution |
Summary of Notes Referenced by This Note
To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.
Summary of Notes Citing This Note
Animalism, 2, 3 |
Baker |
Baker - The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons |
Constitution, 2 |
Fetuses |
Mereology |
PID Note, Book & Paper Usage, 2, 3 |
Research - Proposal |
Thesis - Chapter 06 (Animalism and Arguments for It), 2 |
Thesis - Chapter 07 (The Constitution View and Arguments for It) |
Thesis - Chapter 08 (Arguments against Animalism) |
Thesis - Chapter 09 (Arguments against the Constitution View), 2, 3, 4, 5 |
Thesis - Current Stance |
Thinking Animal Argument |
Website Generator Documentation - Functors, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 |
To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.
Authors, Books & Papers Citing this Note
Author |
Title |
Medium |
Extra Links |
Read? |
Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
The Coherence Of the Constitution View of Human Persons |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
DeGrazia (David) |
Human Persons: Numerical Identity and Essence |
Paper  |
|
|
Hershenov (David) |
Review of Nancey Murphy's 'Bodies and Souls, or Spirited Bodies?' |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
Olson (Eric) |
The Zombies Among Us |
Paper  |
|
|
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Animalism |
Paper  |
2, 3 |
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Baker |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 06 (Animalism and Arguments for It) |
Paper  |
2 |
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 07 (The Constitution View and Arguments for It) |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 08 (Arguments against Animalism) |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Chapter 09 (Arguments against the Constitution View) |
Paper  |
2, 3, 4, 5 |
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Constitution |
Paper  |
2 |
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Current Position |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Fetuses |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Mereology |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
Todman (Theo) |
Thesis - Thinking Animal Argument |
Paper  |
|
Yes |
References & Reading List
Author |
Title |
Medium |
Source |
Read? |
Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Brief Reply to Rosenkrantz's Comments on my 'The Ontological Status of Persons' |
Paper - Cited  |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 65, September 2002, pp. 394-395 |
Yes |
Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Christians Should Reject Mind-Body Dualism |
Paper - Cited  |
Peterson (Michael) & Van Arragon (Raymond) - Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion, 2004 |
Yes |
Baker (Lynne Rudder) |
Replies to Zimmerman, Rea & Pereboom |
Paper - Cited  |
Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 64.3 (May 2002), pp. 623-635 |
No |
Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. |
E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View' |
Book - Cited  |
Baker (Lynne Rudder), Etc. - E-Symposium on 'Persons & Bodies: A Constitution View' |
Yes |
De Waal (Frans) |
The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist |
Book - Cited  |
De Waal (Frans) - The Ape and the Sushi Master: Cultural Reflections of a Primatologist |
7% |
Kingma (Elselijn) |
Were You Part of Your Mother? |
Paper - Cited  |
Mind, Volume 128, Issue 511, July 2019, Pages 609–646 |
Yes |
Noller (Jorg) |
Beyond Animalism and Constitutionalism: The Person as A Form of Life |
Paper - Cited  |
Retrieved from Academia.edu |
17% |
Peterson (Michael) & VanArragon (Raymond) |
Contemporary Debates in Philosophy of Religion |
Book - Cited (via Paper Cited)  |
Bibliographical details to be supplied |
13% |
Text Colour Conventions
- Blue: Text by me; © Theo Todman, 2023