<!DOCTYPE html><HTML lang="en"> <head> <meta charset="utf-8"> <link href="../../TheosStyle.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"><link rel="shortcut icon" href="../../TT_ICO.png" /> <title>Note: Animadversions - Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics (Theo Todman's Web Page)</title> </head><body> <a name="Top"></a> <h1>Theo Todman's Web Page - Notes Pages</h1><hr><h2>Animadversions</h2><h3>Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</h3><p class = "Centered">(Text as at 18/12/2010 19:58:05)<br><br>(For earlier versions of this Note, <a href="#TableOfPreviousVersions">see the table at the end</a>)</p><hr> <P><FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><ol type="1"><li>Keith Ward provided a hand-out (<a name="2"></a>"<A HREF = "../../Abstracts/Abstract_15/Abstract_15930.htm">Ward (Keith) - God and Metaphysics</A>"), but made a lot of ad hoc replies to <a name="1"></a><A HREF = "../Notes_9/Notes_914.htm">Snowdon</A><SUP>1</SUP> as he went along. These comments are fairly full notes I made during the talk. Any footnotes are my own comments. </li><li>Ward was appreciative of the non-hostility from the Naturalist camp  in marked contrast to other Oxonians!</li><li>He denied that we have to <U>start</U> from T-Naturalism. Experiences that are <U>natural</U> to us are not necessarily those of T-Naturalism. Eg. those of Platonists with numbers. <ul type="disc"><li>Some cosmologists refer to  this universe ; where this space-time arises from outside. Quantum-cosmologists are happy talking about the supernatural. T-Naturalism only applies to  this space-time  we don t know the character of other space-times. </li><li>Superstring theory posits a 10-dimensional universe  this is not  natural . </li><li>The truths of mathematics are not  in space-time. </li><li>So, naturalism is not where Ward starts from  it s not  natural for him to do so. </li></ul></li><li>Theists think that space-time depends on something outside of space-time. Their interpretive scheme includes God, a mind-like being who wills things and knows all things intuitively. <U>Could</U> there be such a mind? It would be queer, but a non-physical mind is not necessarily incoherent. There <U>could</U> be such a mind that only knows  so all this mathematical truth is in the mind of God  semi-Platonism re mathematics  better than Penrose s <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_915_2">claim</A></U><SUB>2</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_915_2"></A> that mathematical objects exist, but not in a mind. </li><li>If there is such a being, then it can t be physically identified, and it can t be known by science even in principle, because the claim is that God is not known by the senses. </li><li><B>Commitment</B>: the universe has a goal or purpose. There is no direction in evolution. It is difficult to find purpose in T-Naturalism  there is no  final causality in nature. So  what is the <U>evidence</U>? Does the universe <U>look</U> as though it has a purpose? Ayer originally denied that his question was meaningful, but then changed his <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_915_3">mind</A></U><SUB>3</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_915_3"></A>. </li><li>So, the existence of evil <U>is</U> a counter-argument to theism. But it doesn t follow from theism that all will be good. There could be <U>some</U> reason for evil ... not everything that occurs is directly <U>willed</U> by God. Does <U>chance</U> play a major part? The lottery is nice, except if you lose. Do we have the world a rational mind would choose? </li><li><B>Transcendental deduction</B> of the <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_915_4">nature</A></U><SUB>4</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_915_4"></A>) of value. <ul type="disc">G. E. Moore: Non-Natural <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_915_5">facts</A></U><SUB>5</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_915_5"></A>. <li>Beautiful : good; ugly : bad  <U>depends</U> on a valuing <U>mind</U>, depends on someone making a decision.</li><li>But, aren t distinctions between good & bad <U>discoveries</U>, rather than <U>decisions</U>? </li><li>Consciousness is a necessary condition for value; plus the ability to anticipate the future; Plus feeling  gives a <U>reason</U> for choice of pleasure over pain; a <U>ranking</U>. </li><li>Value is not arbitrary taste  and intelligent being would make the same choice. </li></ul></li><li>So, if the universe has a value, it depends on a mind valuing it (over other possible universes). </li><li><B>Purpose</B>: involves value, process, and consciousness. That at which the universe aims. The purpose of the universe is the emergence of conscious beings (Philippa <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_915_6">Foot</A></U><SUB>6</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_915_6"></A>). </li><li>God can only know some things if they are <U>actual</U>, rather than potential  this is Ward s controversial (and anti-Aquinas) claim. Otherwise (?) we have an argument for modal realism. </li><li>Ward does <U>see</U> value  dependent on T-Naturalism, but not T-Naturalism; a way of being in the world as seeing purpose behind it. That s the way most people see the world  they are supernaturalists (though not necessarily theists  cf. the Chinese). </li><li>We are all  sinners  alienated from the source of our being. Have to be told they need good arguments  quote from some <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_915_7">philosopher</A></U><SUB>7</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_915_7"></A> who  in relation to the  other minds problem  said he didn t want  inferred friends . </li><li>Those who experiment with prayer are misled  God objects to being experimented on. </li><li>Plato  appearance and reality  a theistic empiricist? </li></ol></P> <FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><BR><HR><h3 class = "Left">In-Page Footnotes:</h3><a name="On-Page_Link_915_2"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_915_2"><B>Footnote 2</B></A></U>: Where is this claim made?<a name="On-Page_Link_915_3"></A><BR><BR><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_915_3"><B>Footnote 3</B></A></U>: Where  on both counts? Try <a name="3"></a>"<A HREF = "../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_2.htm">Ayer (A.J.) - Language, Truth and Logic</A>", possibly in the (later) <a name="6"></a>"<A HREF = "../../Abstracts/Abstract_04/Abstract_4835.htm">Ayer (A.J.) - Language, Truth and Logic; Introduction</A>" for the recantation. <BR>Alternatively, somewhere in <a name="4"></a>"<A HREF = "../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_903.htm">Hahn (Lewis Edwin), Ed. - The Philosophy of A.J. Ayer</A>", possibly in <a name="7"></a>"<A HREF = "../../PaperSummaries/PaperSummary_02/PaperSummary_2898.htm">Ayer (A.J.) - Still More of My Life</A>" or in <a name="8"></a>"<A HREF = "../../PaperSummaries/PaperSummary_02/PaperSummary_2897.htm">Ayer (A.J.) - My Mental Development</A>".<a name="On-Page_Link_915_4"></A><BR><BR><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_915_4"><B>Footnote 4</B></A></U>: Or notion?<a name="On-Page_Link_915_5"></A><BR><BR><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_915_5"><B>Footnote 5</B></A></U>: Presumably see <a name="5"></a>"<A HREF = "../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_409.htm">Moore (G.E.) - Principia Ethica</A>".<a name="On-Page_Link_915_6"></A><BR><BR><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_915_6"><B>Footnote 6</B></A></U>: Where? And what about the heat death, or big crunch, after which there will be no conscious beings in the universe. Does this undermine its purpose?<a name="On-Page_Link_915_7"></A><BR><BR><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_915_7"><B>Footnote 7</B></A></U>: Looks like H.H. Price in <I>Philosophy</I> 13 : 425-456 (1938)  Our Evidence for the Existence of Other Minds </center><br> <br><hr><h3 class = "Left">Printable Versions:</h3> <UL><li>Follow (<A Href="Notes_Print/NotesPrint_915_0_P_R.htm" TARGET = "_top">this link</A>) for level 0 (with reading list), and </li><li>Follow (<A Href="Notes_Print/NotesPrint_915_1_P.htm" TARGET = "_top">this link</A>) for level 1.</li></UL> <a name="TableOfPreviousVersions"></a><BR><HR><h3 class= "Left">Table of the Previous 7 Versions of this Note:</h3> <TABLE class = "ReadingList" WIDTH=700> <TR><TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeCenter"><strong>Date</strong></TD> <TD WIDTH="10%" class = "BridgeRight"><strong>Length</strong></TD> <TD WIDTH="70%" class = "BridgeLeft"><strong>Title</strong></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">21/06/2010 12:28:48</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">4455</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_915_40350520.htm">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</A></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">21/06/2010 10:29:17</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">2197</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_915_40350437.htm">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</A></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">21/06/2010 10:19:12</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">1317</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_915_40350430.htm">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</A></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">21/06/2010 09:36:00</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">1090</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_915_40350400.htm">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</A></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">20/06/2010 19:56:38</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">954</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_915_40349831.htm">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</A></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">20/06/2010 14:05:17</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">872</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_915_40349587.htm">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</A></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">18/06/2010 14:54:14</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">16</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_915_40347621.htm">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</A></TD></TR> </TABLE> <BR><HR><BR><CENTER><TABLE class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950><TR> <TH WIDTH="25%">Note last updated</TH> <TH WIDTH="50%">Reading List for this Topic</TH> <TH WIDTH="25%">Parent Topic</TH></TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="25%">18/12/2010 19:58:05</TD> <TD WIDTH="50%">None available</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%"><A href ="../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_913.htm">Heythrop - Religion and Naturalism Conference</A></TD></TR> </TABLE></center> <hr><h3>Summary of Note Links from this Page</h3> <CENTER> <TABLE Class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950> <TR> <td bgcolor="#b3ffb3" WIDTH="20%"><A href = "../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_914.htm"><span title="High Quality">Snowdon - Naturalism and Metaphysics</span></A></TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> </TR> </TABLE> </CENTER> <P class = "Centered">To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.</P> <BR><HR><BR><h3>Summary of Note Links to this Page</h3> <CENTER> <TABLE Class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950> <TR> <td bgcolor="#b3ffb3" WIDTH="20%"><A href = "../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_913.htm#2"><span title="High Quality">Heythrop - Religion and Naturalism Conference</span></A></TD> <td bgcolor="#b3ffb3" WIDTH="20%"><A href = "../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_921.htm#2"><span title="High Quality">Snowdon & Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics - Q&As</span></A></TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> </TR> </TABLE> </CENTER> <P class = "Centered">To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.</P> <CENTER> <br><hr><br><h3>References & Reading List</h3> <TABLE class = "ReadingList" WIDTH=950> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft"><B>Author</B></TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft"><B>Title</B></TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><B>Medium</B></TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft"><B>Source</B></TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter"><B>Read?</B></TD> <TR> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft">Ayer (A.J.)</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft">Language, Truth and Logic</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF="../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_2.htm">Book - Cited</A> <img src="../../cancel.png" alt="Low Quality Abstract"></TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft">Ayer (A.J.) - Language, Truth and Logic</TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter">Yes</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft">Ayer (A.J.)</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft">Language, Truth and Logic; Introduction</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF="../../Abstracts/Abstract_04/Abstract_4835.htm">Paper - Cited</A> <img src="../../cancel.png"alt="Low Quality Abstract" Title=""></TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft">Ayer - Language, Truth and Logic, Introduction</TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter">Yes</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft">Ayer (A.J.)</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft">My Mental Development</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF="../../PaperSummaries/PaperSummary_02/PaperSummary_2897.htm">Paper - Cited</A> </TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft">Hahn - The Philosophy of A.J. Ayer</TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter">No</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft">Ayer (A.J.)</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft">Still More of My Life</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF="../../PaperSummaries/PaperSummary_02/PaperSummary_2898.htm">Paper - Cited</A> </TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft">Hahn - The Philosophy of A.J. Ayer</TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter">No</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft">Hahn (Lewis Edwin), Ed.</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft">The Philosophy of A.J. Ayer</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF="../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_903.htm">Book - Cited</A> </TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft">Hahn (Lewis Edwin), Ed. - The Philosophy of A.J. Ayer</TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter">No</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft">Moore (G.E.)</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft">Principia Ethica</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF="../../BookSummaries/BookSummary_00/BookPaperAbstracts/BookPaperAbstracts_409.htm">Book - Cited</A> </TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft">Moore (G.E.) - Principia Ethica</TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter">No</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH="15%" class = "BridgeLeft">Ward (Keith)</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" class = "BridgeLeft">God and Metaphysics</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF="../../Abstracts/Abstract_15/Abstract_15930.htm">Paper - Cited</A> <img src="../../accept.png"alt="High Quality Abstract" Title=""></TD> <TD WIDTH="35%" class = "BridgeLeft">Religion and Naturalism, Heythrop College, 12 July 2010</TD> <TD WIDTH="5%" class = "BridgeCenter">Yes</TD> </TR> </TABLE> </CENTER> <a name="ColourConventions"></a><br><hr><br><h3 class = "Left">Text Colour Conventions</h3><OL TYPE="1"><li><FONT COLOR = "000000">Black</FONT>: Printable Text by me; &copy; Theo Todman, 2018</li><li><FONT COLOR = "0000FF">Blue</FONT>: Text by me; &copy; Theo Todman, 2018</li></OL><BR> <center><BR><HR><BR><TABLE class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950><TR><TD WIDTH="30%">&copy; Theo Todman, June 2007 - August 2018.</TD><TD WIDTH="40%">Please address any comments on this page to <A HREF="mailto:theo@theotodman.com">theo@theotodman.com</A>.</TD><TD WIDTH="30%">File output: <time datetime="2018-08-06T09:50" pubdate>06/08/2018 09:50:52</time> <br><A HREF="../../Notes/Notes_10/Notes_1010.htm">Website Maintenance Dashboard</A></TD></TR><TD WIDTH="30%"><A HREF="#Top">Return to Top of this Page</A></TD><TD WIDTH="40%"><A HREF="../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1140.htm">Return to Theo Todman's Philosophy Page</A></TD><TD WIDTH="30%"><A HREF="../../index.htm">Return to Theo Todman's Home Page</A></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER><HR></BODY></HTML>