<!DOCTYPE html><HTML lang="en"> <head> <meta charset="utf-8"> <link href="../../TheosStyle.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"><link rel="shortcut icon" href="../../TT_ICO.png" /> <title>Note: Animadversions - Snowdon & Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics - Q&As (Theo Todman's Web Page)</title> </head><body> <a name="Top"></a> <h1>Theo Todman's Web Page - Notes Pages</h1><hr><h2>Animadversions</h2><h3>Snowdon & Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics - Q&As</h3><p class = "Centered">(Text as at 18/12/2010 19:58:05)<br><br>(For earlier versions of this Note, <a href="#TableOfPreviousVersions">see the table at the end</a>)</p><hr> <P><FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><ol type="1"><li>This was a follow-up <U><A HREF="#On-Page_Link_921_1">session</A></U><SUB>1</SUB><a name="On-Page_Return_921_1"></A> to <a name="1"></a><A HREF = "../Notes_9/Notes_914.htm">Snowdon</A><SUP>2</SUP> and <a name="2"></a><A HREF = "../Notes_9/Notes_915.htm">Ward</A><SUP>3</SUP>. </li><li><B>Fiona Ellis</B>: chaired the Session, and started off with two questions:- <ul type="disc"><li>Is there more to the world than the T-World? Ie. Is there value in the world?</li><li>What s the relation between consciousness and value? Are all values conscious states? Is consciousness necessary to <U>discern</U> value? </li></ul></li><li><B>Paul Snowdon</B>: Value in the world? Does it have a natural basis? Music has a value <U>for</U> listeners  it s a consumable, like wine. Naturalistically, values are embedded in the lives and enjoyment of human beings. Value relies on minds, but not on a supernatural mind. We discern (in music) not <U>value</U> but sound and structure. </li><li><B>Keith Ward</B>: Is there <U>objective</U> value? Might I be <U>defective</U> in not appreciating things of value? The concept of God is an integrating concept. Is Mathematics a matter of discovery or of creation? Is value there to be discovered, or have we moral relativism?</li><li><B>Paul Snowdon</B>: Could the theists please help those who can t see the clothes to see them? Are those who can t see God <U>depraved</U>? </li><li><B>Keith Ward</B>: We <U>all</U> are! But, we don t <U>choose</U> to believe in God  it s a basic way of viewing the world. No-one denies that the lectern exists, but it s a different sort of question whether God exists. </li><li><B>Paul Snowdon</B>: What does  numbers in the mind of God mean? What kind of hypothesis is it that there exists a God whose mind holds all mathematical truth. It needs more explanation, or it s not an answer. For instance, does God discern a truth <U>beyond</U> himself? And, if he does, have we got anywhere or are we in a regress? </li><li><B>Paul Snowdon</B>: People believe what they are taught or brought up to believe. Different things seem  natural in different societies  eg. flat earthers  but it is possible to escape. Intellectual progress involves becoming critical of  cultural givens . </li><li><B>Keith Ward</B>: But what of those (like himself) who were brought up as atheists? How do they  get religion ? Even in Britain, believing in God is counter-cultural. </li><li><B>Paul Snowdon</B>: T-Naturalism does have an answer  it s still cultural  but it s not  because you re stupid that you believe in God (or disbelieve, for that matter). In a liberal society, many positions are unclear. </li><li><B>Paul Snowdon</B>: Appreciated the  tone of the discussion  cutting out the confrontational aspects  he himself is the son of a vicar, and many of his best friends are Christians. </li></ol></P> <FONT COLOR = "0000FF"><BR><HR><h3 class = "Left">In-Page Footnotes:</h3><a name="On-Page_Link_921_1"></A><U><A HREF="#On-Page_Return_921_1"><B>Footnote 1</B></A></U>: My notes are not very full, and my memory of the session is now substantially gone. So, this write-up gives a flavour only.</center><br> <br><hr><h3 class = "Left">Printable Versions:</h3> <UL><li>Follow (<A Href="Notes_Print/NotesPrint_921_0_P_R.htm" TARGET = "_top">this link</A>) for level 0 (with reading list), and </li><li>Follow (<A Href="Notes_Print/NotesPrint_921_1_P.htm" TARGET = "_top">this link</A>) for level 1.</li></UL> <a name="TableOfPreviousVersions"></a><BR><HR><h3 class= "Left">Table of the Previous 2 Versions of this Note:</h3> <TABLE class = "ReadingList" WIDTH=700> <TR><TD WIDTH="20%" class = "BridgeCenter"><strong>Date</strong></TD> <TD WIDTH="10%" class = "BridgeRight"><strong>Length</strong></TD> <TD WIDTH="70%" class = "BridgeLeft"><strong>Title</strong></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">21/06/2010 09:40:19</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">75</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_921_40350403.htm">Snowdon & Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics - Q&As</A></TD></TR> <TR><TD class = "BridgeCenter">20/06/2010 10:10:34</TD> <TD class = "BridgeRight">16</TD> <TD class = "BridgeLeft"><A HREF = "Notes_921_40349424.htm">Snowdon & Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics - Q&As</A></TD></TR> </TABLE> <BR><HR><BR><CENTER><TABLE class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950><TR> <TH WIDTH="25%">Note last updated</TH> <TH WIDTH="50%">Reading List for this Topic</TH> <TH WIDTH="25%">Parent Topic</TH></TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="25%">18/12/2010 19:58:05</TD> <TD WIDTH="50%">None available</TD> <TD WIDTH="25%"><A href ="../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_913.htm">Heythrop - Religion and Naturalism Conference</A></TD></TR> </TABLE></center> <hr><h3>Summary of Note Links from this Page</h3> <CENTER> <TABLE Class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950> <TR> <td bgcolor="#b3ffb3" WIDTH="20%"><A href = "../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_914.htm"><span title="High Quality">Snowdon - Naturalism and Metaphysics</span></A></TD> <td bgcolor="#b3ffb3" WIDTH="20%"><A href = "../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_915.htm"><span title="High Quality">Ward - Naturalism and Metaphysics</span></A></TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> </TR> </TABLE> </CENTER> <P class = "Centered">To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.</P> <BR><HR><BR><h3>Summary of Note Links to this Page</h3> <CENTER> <TABLE Class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950> <TR> <td bgcolor="#b3ffb3" WIDTH="20%"><A href = "../../Notes/Notes_9/Notes_913.htm#3"><span title="High Quality">Heythrop - Religion and Naturalism Conference</span></A></TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="20%">&nbsp;</TD> </TR> </TABLE> </CENTER> <P class = "Centered">To access information, click on one of the links in the table above.</P> <a name="ColourConventions"></a><br><hr><br><h3 class = "Left">Text Colour Conventions</h3><OL TYPE="1"><li><FONT COLOR = "000000">Black</FONT>: Printable Text by me; &copy; Theo Todman, 2018</li><li><FONT COLOR = "0000FF">Blue</FONT>: Text by me; &copy; Theo Todman, 2018</li></OL><BR> <center><BR><HR><BR><TABLE class = "Bridge" WIDTH=950><TR><TD WIDTH="30%">&copy; Theo Todman, June 2007 - August 2018.</TD><TD WIDTH="40%">Please address any comments on this page to <A HREF="mailto:theo@theotodman.com">theo@theotodman.com</A>.</TD><TD WIDTH="30%">File output: <time datetime="2018-08-02T18:11" pubdate>02/08/2018 18:11:26</time> <br><A HREF="../../Notes/Notes_10/Notes_1010.htm">Website Maintenance Dashboard</A></TD></TR><TD WIDTH="30%"><A HREF="#Top">Return to Top of this Page</A></TD><TD WIDTH="40%"><A HREF="../../Notes/Notes_11/Notes_1140.htm">Return to Theo Todman's Philosophy Page</A></TD><TD WIDTH="30%"><A HREF="../../index.htm">Return to Theo Todman's Home Page</A></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER><HR></BODY></HTML>